Everyone kept telling me how good the Sailor Fudes are, so I got ma’self one! I’ll give it a go today, have you got one? Any tips? Cheap refills? What paper is best, rough or smooth?
Any tips for other good drawing pens? I am a fan of a stick or a post office nib myself but always like to discover new pens and their quirks!
I absolutely love my Pilot Parallel. I bought a Pilot Spare Sign Pen and just took the screwed the Parallel front section into the body and I eyedropper it for max capacity (with a little silicone grease on the threads). Been doing it for months and not a leak.
I like them more with smooth paper too. If you get a converter you are not attached to refills and you can put any color that you like. And for inks I would recommend the Sketch inks from Rohrer and Kilgner. They are waterproof and they won’t clog your pen.
Yes, a converter is like a pen cartridge. It has a piston and you can add the ink that you like. Is is cheaper and more environmentally friendly than refills but it is a bit dirtier too (just be careful when you add the ink). Here is a link of the one I have (it is a standard size one)
Hi, I have a sailor pen and had the waterproof ink you use in my pen too. However, I didn’t use the pen for a couple of weeks and it felt a bit dry. I was worried I might ruin the pen so I washed it out and have been using water soluble ink since. I’d love to go back to using the waterproof ink- do you use yours constantly or do you find it works ok with a couple of weeks of non use? I wonder if I was over worrying 🙄😁Many Thanks
I use Platinum Carbon Ink and it doesn’t clog, even if you don’t use the pen for a few weeks. I did have some trouble with other ink, the Dr Atrementis one. A tip is to dip your pen just a few seconds in some water when you haven’t used it for a while, that can help!
The Sailor fude is my only fountain pen and I loooove it! I've used expensive ones that were just troublesome, but the fude is incredibly trouble free. It comes with an ink cartridge, but it's NOT waterproof ink! I also use Platinum Carbon ink with a converter and it works wonderfully. Sometimes you might get ink on your fingers when you refill the converter, but it's very easy to use. I have never had this pen clog or spit or dry up if I haven't used it in awhile. It's kind of magical. It's worth getting the Platinum Carbon ink from a reputable fountain pen company, because I once ordered some from Amazon and what I received was NOT waterproof! It taught me to always test my new ink before drawing. I think you'll love the fude, have fun!
Hi Ro, I know what you mean! I think the Sketch inks from Rohrer &K (they have other kinds of inks, but this one I am sure) is waterproof and do not clog or dry in these pens. I don't know what happens if you leave them for weeks without using them but I used mine last week and just tested it and it is still fine. So maybe use it once a week? I hope this helps!
Thanks so much for replying- I think I might have a go again and just make sure I use it more regularly and keep the lid screwed on properly! I love the nib and how you have 3 line thickness options. Great pen.
I’ve heard the 55degree is better for drawing, but have tried both it and the 40 degree and find both a little mercurial in terms of flow (good days and bad) even with R&K ink and DeAtrimentis. Also they feel very “cheap” in the hand (lightweight and plasticy) which I guess they are.
All that said, when they do work I love their lines especially on smooth paper.
I have both as well. I think I slightly prefer the 40 degree, but it's not a big difference. Flow is not always perfect, but I find that once I get it going again, it flows fine. They are definitely light.
Lamy Joy w a converter is another great pen. Although I love any Lamy. Use them both in sketchbooks. Pentel brush pen is another great one. I buy multiple boxes of cartridges because i do hate running out. Two fav brands of sketchbooks are Super aquabee and Stillman and Birn Alphas.
Hadn't heard of this and now need to get one lol! I like the Pentel Brush Pen - I also have a Kuretake one which was much more expensive - and imho not as good at making marks. In terms of calligraphy it's always a Lamy Safari with the italic nibs ... paper wise - I much prefer smooth if using a brush or wide pen - someone mentioned the Parallel pens - they're great too!
I actually *just purchased a Pentel pocket brush pen yesterday and I’m already so happy with it. I also want to try the parallel pen! And a fude too 🤦🏼♀️ I love the idea of refillable ones, I’m now obsessed with the idea of having a muddy green ink one!!
I second the Pentel Pocket Brush Pen recommendation. You get SO much line variation, and the pens are refillable with black, gray, and sepia cartridges.
They sell refillable cartridges that you can fill with your favourite (fountain pen) inks. If your Fude gets clogged up you can just leave it overnight in a glass of water and rinse in the morning. This sometimes happens with the black cartridges.
I also love the Pentel Tradio, they come with a kind of felt tip pen nib, they are super scratchy which I love. Also refillable.
I usually just use a blunt needle hypodermic to refill the cartridge that comes with the pen. Sailor Platinum Carbon ink is a no-fail waterproof ink. It dries quickly enough to watercolor on top of it.
I'm still in love with my Little Fat Man. Lost him for a few days, bought another one, and then he popped back up and wasn't even clogged! I need to take him out on a date with my sketchbook soon.
I wonder what other cool tools are in that drawer hiding! Do we need to have another coworking clean-up session in the future to uncover some hidden treasures?
P.S. I bought the Sailor for my husband (secretly so I could try it) and he loves it and now I need refills. I'm glad you posted this so I can figure out what the heck to do next! ✒️✨
Beth, My studio is so bad I moved to my kitchen table! Yes let’s do another studio tidy session! I think I need t put up fairy lights and warm curtains to get me through the winter. I need a winter studio transformation. 🌟🌟🌟
Yes, let’s do another and get your project twinkly lights and cozy curtains underway! I think I’m doing a digital declutter this time. My desktop looks like a tornado hit.
I love the sailor, it’s one of my go-to for drawing outside in sketchbooks especially. I use a refillable ink cartridge with Atramentis ink which is waterproof so that I can work ontop and mix-n-match some more.
I have had 2 of them. There is one that is quite inexpensive ( $10) but the tip just doesn’t flow right and then there’s a better one about ($25) that I loved and recently lost. I often sit and dream about the good times we had. Maybe time or Black Friday will help me get over it. Also there is a none soluble ink Kaguara(sp?) that is necessary. Cartridges or bottles.
Get a converter from Amazon. Love the Carbon Black Ink. Dries fast and is permanent. I actually have two because they seem to use more ink than a regular pen like a Lamy. When u r into drawing with them u don't want to have to change to another pen.
I do alot of live people sketching which means fast drawing that hopes to be precose so it resembles the person. Sometimes one pen seems to work better than others. Other times I start with one and toss it in favor of another that seems to do the trick better. No clue why that is. Very rarely does the pentel let me down. Its always reliable when other pens sputter. When u have two minutes to draw a person you need reliability first then an interesting line. A pentel does both. The fude. Wow love its lines but i use it for urban sketching. Same for the Joy.
All that said lately i am using a general HB charcoal pencil w watercolor for sketching. We do alot of drawing w @drawingisfree_org or @pencils4tea. 13-16 portraits in an hour. Insanely good fun on zoom.
Hi, yes agree with the smooth paper - it glides really nicely, photocopy paper good for me too. I really like the sailor ink, it's great. Interested to hear your thoughts! Enjoy
I’ve only recently got one - this just prompted me to get it out and have a go 🥰
Love the different thickness of lines you can make ...have got a converter but totally failed to fill it with ink 😅 so I’ve popped in one of the cartridges provided with the pen for now.
I use this pen and love it. I love it on smooth paper I found that some rough papers the ink does bleed a little which is good for adding different textures but not so good if you want a fine line.
Also chiming in - my Sailor Fude (the green one) is probably one of my favourite pens for drawing. Another favourite for me is my Kuretake brush pen my dad brought for me from Japan. I also have the blue sailor fude, but prefer to use the green one - bolder lines 😁. I have a friend who does a lot of live sketching for weddings and so, she likes to use the blue sailor fude. So I guess you have to try them out to find what you like best.
I like my Lamy Safari mostly for writing. And I use d’Atramentis ink in all of them.
I love my Sailor pens. I usually use the cartridges for the Sailor pens which come in a fab range of colours. The brand of ink cartridges I like is Sailor Shikiori. They are not waterproof but I like swishing about with water and seeing what extra effects I can create!
Wanted to chime in that you can also get a syringe to refill your cartridge! I ordered mine from Jetpens. I also see a lot of people recommending LAMY pens, I personally prefer TWISBI ECO, they hold a lot more ink, are generally better made and have a more consistent nib! I’ve had so many issues with the 3 LAMY pens I do own and none with my TWISBI eco! Could be worth a shot, they’re a nice starter pen 🥰
Oh I only just found this post! I got my first Sailor Fude a month ago. It came with the non waterproof cartridges which I love because I can play with the lines and water.. but I also wanted waterproof so I’ve treated myself to another one so I don't have to keep changing. I was wondering about which ink to buy so this has been really useful!
I used the sailor fude with a graphite grey waterproof ink (Rohrer and klinger) for medium tones on my inktober drawings this year, with touches of pigment black ink. It was really fun. I love the wonky thick lines you can get with it. Smooth or hot press paper has better performance with it, it will skip and lose the line on cold press and texture paper.
I have a Desiderata Pen - not cheap - but a lovely hand crafted item from this man...(www.desideratapens.com) I wanted a fountain pen that I could use in my sketchbook on the hoof that would mimic the wobbly look and feel of a dip pen, which it does superbly! Its flexible nib is lovely, though I admit I have had some issues with it flowing nicely (but that's probably my fault for not taking proper care of it) and I actually rarely carry it about incase it leaks! Still a lovely pen though!
Ooh, and forgot to say - if you want really really thin lines, you can use it the wrong way around. Just love the variation in line thickness these fude pens give.
I use Noodler’s waterproof ink, *love* this stuff! https://noodlersink.com/ I leave it in my Lamy for months and moths without using it, and I can usually just give the nib a bit of a rinse and off it goes again. It is waterproof so I can use watercolours on top of it
But I love the unexpected lines with the fude nibs and although I have a Lamy and a TWISBI ECO pen I do find their lines slightly boring and uneventful 😂
I have both the Sailor Fude de Mannon ( the green one and the slightly more expensive Sailor Profit de Mannen (the dark blue one) I always use the Sailor waterproof ink cartridges or Platinum carbon pigment ink in a bottle with a converter. I use them a lot so they never seem to get blocked. I hate using the cartridges (because of the plastic) but the converter doesn’t hold as much ink and I feel like it’s always running out. I use it on all kinds of paper - each one has its own characteristics with the line. I often use 300g hot pressed watercolour paper.
Another permanent ink that is a new favorite for me is Colorverse Permanant Photo Black. Rather than black it is a nice grey, is waterproof and is softer and more subtle than black. Looks a bit like pencil led. Watercolor doesn’t make it run.
have you tried a Pilot Parallel Pen? I got one earlier in the year and loved it and then its gone unused for a while but instead of buying the refills you can just refill the whole barel with any non-acrylic ink, and apprently you can hack the ends of them for different shapes but I havent tried that yet! Probably a January project! https://www.theartsideshop.co.uk/ourshop/prod_7508072-Pilot-Parallel-Calligraphy-Pen-15-24-38-60mm-4-Pens-Set.html
Just got one and love it, I haven't tried refilling the barrel yet. Hack the end off! Must try that some time!
I absolutely love my Pilot Parallel. I bought a Pilot Spare Sign Pen and just took the screwed the Parallel front section into the body and I eyedropper it for max capacity (with a little silicone grease on the threads). Been doing it for months and not a leak.
https://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Spare-Sign-Pen-Clear/pd/31337
I like them more with smooth paper too. If you get a converter you are not attached to refills and you can put any color that you like. And for inks I would recommend the Sketch inks from Rohrer and Kilgner. They are waterproof and they won’t clog your pen.
Can I ask what a converse is? Does it convert all cartridges to fit? Thanks for the waterproof ink tips, I love waterproof ink.
Yes, a converter is like a pen cartridge. It has a piston and you can add the ink that you like. Is is cheaper and more environmentally friendly than refills but it is a bit dirtier too (just be careful when you add the ink). Here is a link of the one I have (it is a standard size one)
https://cultpens.com/products/lamy-z28-converter?_pos=3&_sid=87c107dd3&_ss=r
Amazing! I’ll order one now. Cheers.
‘Converter’ not ‘converse’ 🤪
Hi, I have a sailor pen and had the waterproof ink you use in my pen too. However, I didn’t use the pen for a couple of weeks and it felt a bit dry. I was worried I might ruin the pen so I washed it out and have been using water soluble ink since. I’d love to go back to using the waterproof ink- do you use yours constantly or do you find it works ok with a couple of weeks of non use? I wonder if I was over worrying 🙄😁Many Thanks
Curious to see the reply to this question.
I use Platinum Carbon Ink and it doesn’t clog, even if you don’t use the pen for a few weeks. I did have some trouble with other ink, the Dr Atrementis one. A tip is to dip your pen just a few seconds in some water when you haven’t used it for a while, that can help!
Platinum carbon is my go-to as well.
Thanks I’ll give it a go 🙌
It’s nice to know there is something else out there! I will try that too 😄
I like the Rohrer and Klinger inks as well!
Thanks that’s great, I’ll check out the Platinum Ink and try the water tip too!
Another vote for Platinum Carbon Black!
The Sailor fude is my only fountain pen and I loooove it! I've used expensive ones that were just troublesome, but the fude is incredibly trouble free. It comes with an ink cartridge, but it's NOT waterproof ink! I also use Platinum Carbon ink with a converter and it works wonderfully. Sometimes you might get ink on your fingers when you refill the converter, but it's very easy to use. I have never had this pen clog or spit or dry up if I haven't used it in awhile. It's kind of magical. It's worth getting the Platinum Carbon ink from a reputable fountain pen company, because I once ordered some from Amazon and what I received was NOT waterproof! It taught me to always test my new ink before drawing. I think you'll love the fude, have fun!
Hi Ro, I know what you mean! I think the Sketch inks from Rohrer &K (they have other kinds of inks, but this one I am sure) is waterproof and do not clog or dry in these pens. I don't know what happens if you leave them for weeks without using them but I used mine last week and just tested it and it is still fine. So maybe use it once a week? I hope this helps!
Thanks so much for replying- I think I might have a go again and just make sure I use it more regularly and keep the lid screwed on properly! I love the nib and how you have 3 line thickness options. Great pen.
I hope it works cause waterproof ink is really necessary, at least for me 😅
I’ve heard the 55degree is better for drawing, but have tried both it and the 40 degree and find both a little mercurial in terms of flow (good days and bad) even with R&K ink and DeAtrimentis. Also they feel very “cheap” in the hand (lightweight and plasticy) which I guess they are.
All that said, when they do work I love their lines especially on smooth paper.
Yes it is quite light now you come to mention it. Haven.t tried drawing with it yet.
I have both as well. I think I slightly prefer the 40 degree, but it's not a big difference. Flow is not always perfect, but I find that once I get it going again, it flows fine. They are definitely light.
Lamy Joy w a converter is another great pen. Although I love any Lamy. Use them both in sketchbooks. Pentel brush pen is another great one. I buy multiple boxes of cartridges because i do hate running out. Two fav brands of sketchbooks are Super aquabee and Stillman and Birn Alphas.
Oh haven't heard of the Lamy! I am a big fan of the pentel brush pen though. Thanks for all the sketchbook tips too!
I've been eyeing this up for ages!! My fave drawing pens are Papermate Flairs and a fine nibbed Rotring Art fountain pen.
Never come across a Papermate Flair, must track it down. Thank you.
Papermate flairs were my pen for almost 15 years, until I rediscovered fountain pens.
Hadn't heard of this and now need to get one lol! I like the Pentel Brush Pen - I also have a Kuretake one which was much more expensive - and imho not as good at making marks. In terms of calligraphy it's always a Lamy Safari with the italic nibs ... paper wise - I much prefer smooth if using a brush or wide pen - someone mentioned the Parallel pens - they're great too!
Oh the Pentel Brush pen is a good one. Never used a Lamy, must get myself one!
I actually *just purchased a Pentel pocket brush pen yesterday and I’m already so happy with it. I also want to try the parallel pen! And a fude too 🤦🏼♀️ I love the idea of refillable ones, I’m now obsessed with the idea of having a muddy green ink one!!
Those pentel brush pens are amazing. Too yes green ink, nice.
I second the Pentel Pocket Brush Pen recommendation. You get SO much line variation, and the pens are refillable with black, gray, and sepia cartridges.
Pentel brush pens are the business!
They sell refillable cartridges that you can fill with your favourite (fountain pen) inks. If your Fude gets clogged up you can just leave it overnight in a glass of water and rinse in the morning. This sometimes happens with the black cartridges.
I also love the Pentel Tradio, they come with a kind of felt tip pen nib, they are super scratchy which I love. Also refillable.
https://cultpens.com/products/pentel-tradio-stylo-fountain-pen-black-trj50
Ah! Thanks for that tip! Are the refillable cartridges Sailor brand too?
I usually just use a blunt needle hypodermic to refill the cartridge that comes with the pen. Sailor Platinum Carbon ink is a no-fail waterproof ink. It dries quickly enough to watercolor on top of it.
Amazing! Thanks for the tip.
Absolutely love using a blunt needle to refill cartridges.
Yes! I have this one: https://cultpens.com/products/sailor-standard-converter
But refilling an empty one with a dropper/pipette also works!
I'm still in love with my Little Fat Man. Lost him for a few days, bought another one, and then he popped back up and wasn't even clogged! I need to take him out on a date with my sketchbook soon.
https://www.amazon.com/Fountain-Transparent-Eyedropper-Filling-Capacity/dp/B094VYV2YD
I ordered the Little Fat Man then popped him in a drawer and forgot about him! Thanks for reminding me.
I wonder what other cool tools are in that drawer hiding! Do we need to have another coworking clean-up session in the future to uncover some hidden treasures?
P.S. I bought the Sailor for my husband (secretly so I could try it) and he loves it and now I need refills. I'm glad you posted this so I can figure out what the heck to do next! ✒️✨
Beth, My studio is so bad I moved to my kitchen table! Yes let’s do another studio tidy session! I think I need t put up fairy lights and warm curtains to get me through the winter. I need a winter studio transformation. 🌟🌟🌟
Yes, let’s do another and get your project twinkly lights and cozy curtains underway! I think I’m doing a digital declutter this time. My desktop looks like a tornado hit.
I love the sailor, it’s one of my go-to for drawing outside in sketchbooks especially. I use a refillable ink cartridge with Atramentis ink which is waterproof so that I can work ontop and mix-n-match some more.
Oh yes, waterproof ink is great for working over isn't it.
Oh, not heard of these but I was thinking of a Lamy fountain pen with a convertor for any ink as seen lots of creative types using them.
A few folks have mentioned the Lamy, I must track one down!
I've been looking on Cult Pens website - warning! Lots of gorgeous things for pen lovers!
I have had 2 of them. There is one that is quite inexpensive ( $10) but the tip just doesn’t flow right and then there’s a better one about ($25) that I loved and recently lost. I often sit and dream about the good times we had. Maybe time or Black Friday will help me get over it. Also there is a none soluble ink Kaguara(sp?) that is necessary. Cartridges or bottles.
Get a converter from Amazon. Love the Carbon Black Ink. Dries fast and is permanent. I actually have two because they seem to use more ink than a regular pen like a Lamy. When u r into drawing with them u don't want to have to change to another pen.
Yes once you find a good pen, why change?
I do alot of live people sketching which means fast drawing that hopes to be precose so it resembles the person. Sometimes one pen seems to work better than others. Other times I start with one and toss it in favor of another that seems to do the trick better. No clue why that is. Very rarely does the pentel let me down. Its always reliable when other pens sputter. When u have two minutes to draw a person you need reliability first then an interesting line. A pentel does both. The fude. Wow love its lines but i use it for urban sketching. Same for the Joy.
All that said lately i am using a general HB charcoal pencil w watercolor for sketching. We do alot of drawing w @drawingisfree_org or @pencils4tea. 13-16 portraits in an hour. Insanely good fun on zoom.
I use speedball and dip it in waterproof ink of the same brand
Speedball Calligraphy Pen Set - 1 Penholder w/ 4 Nibs, 2 Pen Tips https://a.co/d/bLzexYN
Oh never heard of this. Will follow your link, thanks.
Hi, yes agree with the smooth paper - it glides really nicely, photocopy paper good for me too. I really like the sailor ink, it's great. Interested to hear your thoughts! Enjoy
I love drawing on photocopy paper, no pressure to make amazing work on cheap paper, then with no pressure to perform, the magic happens!
I’ve only recently got one - this just prompted me to get it out and have a go 🥰
Love the different thickness of lines you can make ...have got a converter but totally failed to fill it with ink 😅 so I’ve popped in one of the cartridges provided with the pen for now.
Following for hints and tips ☺️
I use this pen and love it. I love it on smooth paper I found that some rough papers the ink does bleed a little which is good for adding different textures but not so good if you want a fine line.
Yes same here. Tried it on bumpy cartridge, it’s not as satisfying as smooth paper.
I love my sailor on smooth paper. You don’t get the lovely scratchiness of a dip pen, but it’s great for different effects.
Also I like how it’s easy to achieve thicker and finer lines and vary the line weight in one stroke.
Absolutely smooth paper for me! But maybe you’ll like a scatchy line where it skips?
Also chiming in - my Sailor Fude (the green one) is probably one of my favourite pens for drawing. Another favourite for me is my Kuretake brush pen my dad brought for me from Japan. I also have the blue sailor fude, but prefer to use the green one - bolder lines 😁. I have a friend who does a lot of live sketching for weddings and so, she likes to use the blue sailor fude. So I guess you have to try them out to find what you like best.
I like my Lamy Safari mostly for writing. And I use d’Atramentis ink in all of them.
I love my Sailor pens. I usually use the cartridges for the Sailor pens which come in a fab range of colours. The brand of ink cartridges I like is Sailor Shikiori. They are not waterproof but I like swishing about with water and seeing what extra effects I can create!
Wanted to chime in that you can also get a syringe to refill your cartridge! I ordered mine from Jetpens. I also see a lot of people recommending LAMY pens, I personally prefer TWISBI ECO, they hold a lot more ink, are generally better made and have a more consistent nib! I’ve had so many issues with the 3 LAMY pens I do own and none with my TWISBI eco! Could be worth a shot, they’re a nice starter pen 🥰
Oh I only just found this post! I got my first Sailor Fude a month ago. It came with the non waterproof cartridges which I love because I can play with the lines and water.. but I also wanted waterproof so I’ve treated myself to another one so I don't have to keep changing. I was wondering about which ink to buy so this has been really useful!
I used the sailor fude with a graphite grey waterproof ink (Rohrer and klinger) for medium tones on my inktober drawings this year, with touches of pigment black ink. It was really fun. I love the wonky thick lines you can get with it. Smooth or hot press paper has better performance with it, it will skip and lose the line on cold press and texture paper.
I have a Desiderata Pen - not cheap - but a lovely hand crafted item from this man...(www.desideratapens.com) I wanted a fountain pen that I could use in my sketchbook on the hoof that would mimic the wobbly look and feel of a dip pen, which it does superbly! Its flexible nib is lovely, though I admit I have had some issues with it flowing nicely (but that's probably my fault for not taking proper care of it) and I actually rarely carry it about incase it leaks! Still a lovely pen though!
I love a Lamy safari. And a platinum preppy. I use rohrer and Klingner sketch ink in them
LOVE my Sailor fude! Get a converter and then you can put waterproof ink in it -I like to use Carbon black ink!
Ooh, and forgot to say - if you want really really thin lines, you can use it the wrong way around. Just love the variation in line thickness these fude pens give.
I use Noodler’s waterproof ink, *love* this stuff! https://noodlersink.com/ I leave it in my Lamy for months and moths without using it, and I can usually just give the nib a bit of a rinse and off it goes again. It is waterproof so I can use watercolours on top of it
But I love the unexpected lines with the fude nibs and although I have a Lamy and a TWISBI ECO pen I do find their lines slightly boring and uneventful 😂
And I love using the pilot parallel pens. I have several widths.
I have both the Sailor Fude de Mannon ( the green one and the slightly more expensive Sailor Profit de Mannen (the dark blue one) I always use the Sailor waterproof ink cartridges or Platinum carbon pigment ink in a bottle with a converter. I use them a lot so they never seem to get blocked. I hate using the cartridges (because of the plastic) but the converter doesn’t hold as much ink and I feel like it’s always running out. I use it on all kinds of paper - each one has its own characteristics with the line. I often use 300g hot pressed watercolour paper.
Update:: the better Sailor pen is Sailor Fountain Pen - 1911 Calligraphy $32. Might be cheaper somewhere but I love this pen.
Another permanent ink that is a new favorite for me is Colorverse Permanant Photo Black. Rather than black it is a nice grey, is waterproof and is softer and more subtle than black. Looks a bit like pencil led. Watercolor doesn’t make it run.
Great tip! I have been looking for a good grey! And it’s waterproof??
I have Noodler's Lexington Grey. It's waterproof.
Duh. You already answered that. Once I start talking about my lost pen I fall apart